The Appalachian Trail hiker, Trevor Thomas, is getting ready for his next venture: the Pacific Crest Trail (PCT). We had the opportunity to interview him about his goals and achievements. What's interesting and unique about Trevor? He undertook a grueling, dangerous hike, and plans to turn it up a notch with his upcoming hike. Did we mention he's blind? On his team's website, they explain what's so fantastic about his achievements:
"Trevor Thomas, age 40, is the first blind person to ever make an unassisted thru-hike of the 2175 mile Appalachian Trail. He will also be the first blind person to attempt an end to end thru-hike of the PCT, and if successful will be not only the first blind but handicapped person to complete the trail." (Read more)
Listen to our interview with Trevor Thomas
EnableMart: I read a bunch about your background. It's pretty inspiring. Just curious, why did you choose the Appalachian Trail as your goal? That's a big goal to go for the first thru-hike.
Trevor Thomas: When I initially decided to get back out after going blind - before going blind, I was in backcountry doing extreme skiing, extreme mountain biking; any sport that was dangerous stupid or crazy, I was first person in line. As I went blind, I lost the ability to do all that. When I went to the outdoor outfitter to get a pair of trekking polls so I could see if I could go out on a trail that's here in Charlotte, NC. The guy that was selling me the polls was telling me this amazing story about this incredible adventure. He had just gotten back from doing a thru-hike of the Appalachian Trail, and just the story he told me, I was instantly hooked by the time I walked out of the store. I decided that's what I'm going to do. I know it sounds crazy, I don't know how I'm going to be able to even make this a reality, but I knew that what's what I needed to do.
EM: When you set your goal, did you research any special technology or anything to make that happen or did you start on any kind of a training regimen or did you just kind of say I'm just going to figure it out on the way?
Trevor: Deciding to just do it on the way is basically a death sentence for a blind person. I spent 18 months researching not only survival skills, but also the Appalachian Trails, which there was not a lot written for blind people on. In addition, I had to train myself how to use my trekking poles instead of a cane on a trail, because there are no classes for that. I investigated GPS systems, but GPS was not advanced enough at the time to make it safe enough for me. I investigated using a dog, such as Bill Irwin did when he did his thru-hike, but opted against it, simply because I simply deemed it too cruel. So I did extensive research... And those that are blind know that you have to have a system for everything. I figured if I developed enough systems as to how I was going to pack, if I had enough people that had done it before that gave me the pitfalls, I'd be okay. It was a wing and a prayer the entire way. Whether you can see or can't see, 2200 miles in the backcountry is definitely not something to take lightly.
EM: When you first got started, what was the first thing you learned the hard way, and/or was different than you expected?
Trevor: I did a lot of training. In Charlotte, NC we have the "greenway system" which is a series of about 130 miles of trails that hook all of our parks together. That's what I used as my training ground. The thing I learned that was very different between the trails that I practiced on versus the Appalachian Trail, is the Appalachian Trail is much more rugged than the groomed trails I trained on. Learning how to fall was the most important thing for me. With a lot of rocks, you fall quite a bit more.
EM: In learning how to fall, did you just kind of feel around with your feet and your trekking poles and then all of a sudden think "oh boy, here's the fall coming, now I gotta tuck-n-roll?"
Trevor: Tuck-N-Roll is a good way to put it. I learned how to feel if I was on the trail or off the trail through the soles of my boots. I could use my trekking poles to scan the trail much like most people use a cane, but it also gave me further stability. I then had I four legs as opposed to two. Inevitably - I quit counting at 3000 falls - you are going to trip, even if you can see. I had lots of friends that fell quite a bit, just like I did. When you fall, protect your head, hips and knees. You break an arm, you can still hike. You harm anything on your lower body, then you'll have problems and be off the trail.
EM: Was there any kind of assistive technology or anything you didn't have, or wasn't available at the time that you think, looking back would have been a whole game changer?
Trevor: Yes. I will say the one piece of technology I brought with me that I valued more than anything (and I still carry today) is an EPIRB (emergency position indicating radio beacon). It's an emergency personal rescue beacon. It not only tells your friends and family where you are and that you're okay, but if you fall, it will call in the National Guard. The one thing I wish I would have had back then that would have made it much, much easier for me since I couldn't read the guide books and I couldn't find any of the blazes on the trees - I now have a GPS that's accurate enough for me to be able to go into the backcountry and use it safely. When I needed it, it was accurate within about 20 meters, which can be a death sentence.
EM: What brand GPS do you have?
Trevor: I have a Garmin Oregon 550.
EM: Does it have an audio message that you tune into? How does it function for someone for someone who is legally blind?
Trevor: They will have one that will use audio, but they developed this one specifically for me and my upcoming attempt at the Pacific Crest Trail. I'm their guinea pig. So far, it's working wonderfully.
EM: Has it opened up new avenues for you in being active?
Trevor: It's opened up so many avenues in the woods that, pardon the pun, I can't even see straight. It not only works in the backcountry, I can download whatever maps that I need, but it will also tell me about towns and navigate through the street. I can use it in town, in my everyday navigation to go to the store, and in the backcountry to guide me on trails.
EM: Do you bring a laptop or anything with you, or is that too heavy?
Trevor: Way too heavy. I have a digital recorder to record my journal entries.
EM: I have a few friends who have done the Appalachian Trail and other stuff, and they say you start out with so much stuff that you end up leaving behind after the first day. What did you bring that you thought would be really useful, that ended up not helping?
Trevor: Everybody starts out with stuff you don't need, but it teaches you how to value an item by whether you're willing to carry the weight. I brought something that was totally ludicrous, and I ditched it after about three days, when we could mail things home. Since I couldn't bring a book with me, I thought it would be a great idea to bring my CD player with a whole bunch of books on CD, which ended up weighing about a pound. Although a pound doesn't sound like much, ounces turn into pounds, pounds turn into lots of pounds and then you end up with a pack that weighs 50 pounds, which nobody wants. That was one thing I brought that had to go by the wayside. Also, instead of just using my cook pot as a drinking cup and something to cook in, I brought an elaborate cook system which came with a thermos and an insulated coffee mug. That had to go by the wayside. I had an assortment of hats for different weather conditions. Those had to go too. Found out that a bandana works for everything even bandaging your wounds. I had a first aid kit that would rival most ER departments. That had to go. Any injury you get that cannot be cured with a little antiseptic, a bandana, and duct tape - you need to get out of the woods. So that was gone. I started with 52 pounds, and I ended up (after about the second stop) with all my food and water down at about 34 pounds. A big difference. It saves your knees and your body a lot of pain.
EM: Was there anything you didn't bring that you had to find or get shipped out to you?
Trevor: I had a very good support system back at home. People were very active in mail-dropping things to me.
EM: What didn't you have that's available now, that you would have brought other than the GPS unit?
Trevor: I had a water filter that probably weighed a pound and a half. The new water filters are probably four or five ounces. I would have loved to have had that. That's just one thing you have to have. If you don't, you die. Carrying all that weight, you seriously consider "do I really, really need this?" Things have changed even in the past two years since I did the trail as far as gear goes. Everything has gotten lighter, more durable, and more cross-useful. I can think of dozens of things I'll take on my next trail, which would have been great. I do think that I'll take the advice of Earl Shaffer who did the Appalachian Trail first - the most important thing you can possibly have is a Ziploc bag.
EM: Your pack was full of the same things everyone else had then, just your locator beacon was different. Anything else you had that that was different than the standard hiker?
Trevor: The one thing I had that most didn't, that really saved my sanity was an MP3 player. Earlier, I got rid of my CD player and decided that it was too heavy, but the nights in the wilderness really can be disheartening, especially when you're alone. There are all sorts of odd noises that you hear that sometimes you don't want to hear (i.e. Bears). My MP3 player that you can download a book on, it was the one thing I had that no one else had.
EM: Did you ever use your MP3 player as an assistive device with trail descriptions or directions?
Trevor: When I finally got up to Maine, for the most of that state - and by the way, Maine is the most rugged state of the Appalachian Trail - I was totally alone. So I did have a friend of mine back at home - they don't make an Appalachian Trail through-hiker's companion for a blind person - she actually read the through-hiker's companion onto my MP3 player and sent the chip to me, so I could put it in my MP3 player. So if I was alone, then I could read "a shelter is 6 miles from here" or "a water source would be 2 miles from here." It would give me the same information somebody else could read in a book - I could get that off my MP3 player. I wish I would have had somebody do that for me from Georgia all the way up the trail. That would've been a godsend.
EM: Are you going to be doing that on the Pacific Crest Trail, or have there been some more audio books out in regards to hiking since your time on the Appalachian Trail?
Trevor: It's sad to say, but no, there haven't been any more guides that have been put out. When I did [the Appalachian Trail] in 2008, 4000 of us started, and about 400 of us finished. The Pacific Crest, unlike the Appalachian Trail is so rugged and so remote, that maybe 300 will start this upcoming year. They say that fewer people have done this trail than have actually climbed Everest. So there are very few books that have ever been written for sighted people on this trail. What I am going to have people do is those that I know that have through-hiked the Pacific Crest - I'm having them read their journals onto an MP3 format so I can have - I won't have the entire trail, but I will have certain sections that I can listen to. ...An excellent resource.
EM: Going from the Appalachian Trail to the Pacific Crest Trail, what's going to be your biggest challenge - obviously the terrain is bigger, steeper, more exposed with cliffs - what are you doing differently and maybe in terms of the technology that would apply to the Pacific Crest that didn't really matter on the Appalachian Trail?
Trevor: I'll have my Garmin with me. I'm also going to taking a satellite phone. As I learned on the Appalachian Trail, cell phones don't work in the backcountry. I will also be taking my MP3 player with me, and I will still have my digital tape recorder so I can record my thoughts in my journals and experiences I had on the trail. Other than that, I don't want to take too much extra because of the weight. With (the GPS and satellite phone), that are available to me now, it's going to be the difference between night and day.
EM: I read on your website that for the Pacific Crest Trail, you've assembled a team to go with you.
Trevor: I have assembled a team that is going to go. I've recently found that one won't be able to go. I do have two other teammates that are going with me. One thing I learned on the Appalachian Trail is that even starting with some teammates, I can't guarantee how long they're going to last. There were so many different people on the Appalachian Trail, and there were so many better athletes than I was out there that didn't have an impediment such as I - they dropped out. Just because you start with somebody, doesn't mean that they are going to continue and finish with you. I have them, at least to start with. Can I guarantee that they'll be able to make it the whole way? No. It's still you're own hike. You put together a group, and hope you can keep the group together, but it's no guarantee.
EM: What was the one experience you're going to take away from the Appalachian Trail that's going to make it doable on the Pacific Crest Trail?
Trevor: The most valuable lesson I learned on the Appalachian Trail was in Maine. I walked into the hundred mile wilderness with hurricane Kyle. Some of the most brutal weather I've ever experienced in my entire life. In one day, I had to cross five rivers, and I did it alone. I fell in every single one of the rivers. What you don't want to do when you're in the hundred mile wilderness is lose your pack. The first rule of thumb they say is unbuckle your pack straps, and if you're going to fall into the water, get rid of the pack. It acts like an anchor, and it will drown you. When you have the conditions I was in, with fifty miles one way to go, and fifty miles the other way to get out, you can't afford to lose it or you'll die. The one thing I took away is that I fell once in the worst river I had to cross. I had the great idea to take a parachute cord; I tied one end around my waist and the other end around my pack. Crossed the river, and if I fell, I would ditch the pack, but would still be able to get it. It acted just like a boat anchor; took me downstream and nearly drown me. I will never make that mistake again. That was probably the scariest thing that's ever happened to me in my entire life.
EM: Most people who go hiking will tell you they do it for the gorgeous views. How do you appreciate nature? What other senses bring joy to you?
Trevor: I was waiting for that question, and I can't count the number of people that have asked me that. Nobody punishes themselves; nobody does what you do on a through-hike just for a view that you could get on a postcard at the ranger station at the bottom of any mountain. You do it for the sense of accomplishment. I've summited mountains just like everyone else, granted, I couldn't see, which is... Which is fine. From every single mountaintop, I picked up a rock, and put it in my pocket. And that... That was my summit photo. I can feel my rocks, and I know "okay, I summited this mountain in Georgia," "I summited this mountain in Maine." When you're on top of a mountain, you feel the sun on your face, you listen to the sheer openness. For miles and miles, you can hear nothing; or maybe you get up on top of a mountain and it's so windy that you can hear nothing at all, except the whir of a freight train, which is what it sounds like. It's more the sense of "I did this. I am standing where very few people have ever gone or ever want to go." That's how I experience a summit. I never saw any great summit photos, some people have told me I got some good ones. For me, it was the rocks, it was the sounds, and it was the feeling I had.
EM: What was the most satisfying moment for you? Was it the completion at Mount Katahdin or getting through a tough stretch...?
Trevor: On the Appalachian Trail, you're going to endure five days of misery. Whether you're too hot, too cold, too wet - too something. For about two days out of every week that are just utterly surreal. I would say my best day and my worst day are exactly the same. My worst day was in Maine, when I almost drown five times and I ended up in a shelter by myself totally wet. Everything I owned was soaked to the core, and the temperature was around thirty degrees. So I was freezing. I was arguing with my EPIRB, wondering if I should press the button to get out. After deciding that I couldn't do it because I only had fifty miles left - that turned into my best day. It was my best day because I lived. Everyday on the Appalachian Trail, even a bad day, was better than a good day in town.
EM: What sort of technologies do you use in your daily life over the last few years that have improved your life?
Trevor: I use Jaws. That's been a godsend as far as I'm concerned. Especially in the age of computers. If I had gone blind back in the 80s, I wouldn't have really cared too much. Now if somebody can't send you an email, or if you can't respond to an email or check out a website, people will look at you like you're a leper. So Jaws has been incredible piece of software for me. It's opened up a lot of things that I really thought after going blind, I wouldn't be able to do anymore. I use my GPS on a daily basis. In town, out of town, it doesn't matter. That's just simply one of things I always carry with me. Another thing I found to be wonderful is the latest generation of audio books that come from the library for the blind. They finally gotten away from those cassettes, and now I can actually get them on an MP3 format. That has really reopened a lot of opportunities for me that I didn't have before. I don't use the DAISY format, because predominately, the books that I want are not on the DAISY format. I have used it before, but I [mostly use] MP3. It sounds very old school [and maybe stupid], but one of things that kept me going on the Appalachian Trail, and I'm really happy I have is a talking watch. My talking watch means more to me than just about anything else I have. With it, I can tell how fast and how far I've gone. Especially when I was in the backcountry - it provided me with sanity - not knowing if it was daytime or nighttime, at least I had my watch that could tell me. You're by yourself, obviously you don't know where you are, but at least you know what time it is. So that's another thing I'm very, very fond of. I wish they made them waterproof and shockproof, but they don't yet. Hopefully I can put my two cents in, and have manufacturer's do that.
... I don't go for a lot of the big ticket items, and it's not because I don't find them valuable. It's because I'm stuck in the trail mentality; I'm a minimalist. If I have a system that I've put together that works, then I tend to not want to change it. Am I open to new technological things? You bet. But I have to evaluate it and say "okay, what's this worth? Is it worth me learning something new? What is it going to provide for me?" That's the way I look at things. I know there are folks out there that require a lot more assistance than I do, that are maybe a lot less functional than I am and require the additional assistance. I like to try and be as normal as possible.
By the way, are you visually impaired?
EM: I'm not, actually.
Trevor: Oh, okay. I always like to ask.
EM: But I do enjoy a lot of things you're into. I'm a big skier, mountain biker, hiking, camping... I can't imagine doing what you've accomplished without my vision. When you first set your mind to it, it's got to me the most daunting task you've ever undertaken.
Trevor: Yeah, it actually was. Had I known what I know now, I'm not sure that I would have attempted it simply because even though I did a lot of research, and I theoretically knew what I was getting into - I talked to people who did it - it was still a lot harder than I thought it would be. Then again, I knew I couldn't quit.
EM: Now you're going back for more with the Pacific Crest Trail. That's really impressive.
Trevor: I'm doing the Pacific Crest Trail; that's going to be 2760 miles. Then I'm going to follow that in 2011 - I'm going to do the Continental Divide. That's 3400 miles. Yeah, I'm pretty much addicted. I want to be the first blind person in the world, and the first handicap person to be what's called a "Triple Climber." Which means I've done all the long trails in the United States.
EM: Wow, that's impressive! I've been on part of the Continental Divide trail in the Wind River Range in Wyoming, and that is some rugged stuff!
Trevor: Yes it is.
EM: Since you've lost your vision, after having [it before], how do you think that changes the challenge for you? Does that influence your decision? Does it give you a different perspective on what you're attempting?
Trevor: Most certainly. In all actuality, if I had never lost my sight, I probably would never have considered doing the Appalachian Trail. I would've continued jumping out of planes and racing Porsches. I would have never given it a second thought. The biggest concern I had and a lot of people warned me about is... If you do this, and you complete it, you're going to make it look easy. That means someone else is going to go out there, and you're going to get somebody killed. Then the people that were blind said "what the heck were you thinking? Of course you're not going to make it, because you're blind and have no business being there." So it was kind of a double-edged sword. This past year, a gentleman did contact me that was blind. He heard about me, and wanted to do the Appalachian Trail. He asked me for advice, and I gave him the advice that I had. He didn't take any of it. He managed to make almost as many headlines as I did. Except, he was the one that got lost out in the backcountry and almost got killed. He was out there for six days by himself with no food and water. They had to send in search parties to go find him. That was a pretty daunting concern that I had - that I could have that kind of influence. I don't want to be responsible to getting anyone killed or anything like that, but I did find out this year I had done what I always wanted to do. I wanted to inspire people. There are three blind people going out this year on the Appalachian Trail thanks to me. They've all called and taken my advice, and I really hope they can persevere and get through it.
EM: As you were losing your vision and had to start finding different ways of doing everyday things, was there some everyday task that you didn't realize you'd have to do differently. Was there a challenge that you didn't think would be a challenge?
Trevor: I can answer that with one word: everything. When I found out I was going blind, I was 35. It was like being rocketed back into kindergarten. Things I never thought of: having to learn how to read, how to write, how to use a computer, how to match my socks, having to develop a system for everything you already learned 30 years ago. It was amazing. I didn't ever realize it was going to take more planning for me to be able to go to Walmart and shop for groceries than most people spend planning a trip to Disney World. That was the biggest thing for me - the extent of things I had to learn. I never contemplated blindness, never knew a blind person. I figured, okay, I have to use a cane, maybe learn some Braille, something like that. Learning how to cook? How to program my oven? Never even entered into my realm of possibilities.
EM: What was your biggest resource to finding these answers and educating yourself on this? You seem like a really independent person, so I imagine you weren't really stoked to run out and ask for help everywhere you went.
Trevor: I started every step of the way. You're right, I did not want to go out - and even when I was going blind, I... And refused to admit it to myself until it actually showed up. We had a very wonderful nonprofit here in Charlotte called Metrolina Association for the Blind. They allowed me to pick and choose the systems I wanted to learn. They considered me their highest risk client and gave me the latitude to not only learn the "mundane" things I knew I had to learn, but they also allowed me - and worked with me - to develop skills that I wanted to have to continue leading the most active lifestyle that I could.
EM: What kind of advice do you have for [gaining independence back in everyday life?]
Trevor: Don't be afraid. That's the biggest thing, and that's what I've found with most of the blind people that have contacted. These days, most blind people don't get the service they need. They don't get the adapted technology that you guys have. They don't know what programs are out there. They do what I did when I first went blind. You live in a state of fear, wondering "if I go outside, I'm going to get hurt." You're a danger to yourself. You've got to have the faith and the perseverance to say "this is the goal that I have." I don't care whether it's doing the Appalachian Trail or going to the mailbox. Set a goal, then find all the resources that are available out there, so you can achieve that goal.
EM: When are you setting out on the Pacific Crest Trail?
Trevor: I'm setting out on April 15th. Gonna pay my taxes, get on a plane, and go to Mexico.
EM: Hopefully we'll keep having low snow here to make that easier for you.
Trevor: We're a little bit concerned about the snow right now, to be honest with you. A lot of snow now means a lot of runoff... So pray for less and less snow out there - that'd be nice.
EM: Do you find any advantages to your blindness while you're hiking? Maybe that you can go at any time of day, or do you stick to a standard clock like everyone else and not hike at night?
Trevor: It doesn't matter to me when I hike. It's the same for me hiking in the daytime as it is at night. Night hiking is something that you have to do, especially when the weather is really, really hot. So I was at an advantage. During a lot of the night hikes, if I was with a group, I was the one that was leading the group. I was the only one that could actually navigate. Typically, I consider myself a normal hiker; most my hiking, I do in the day. I feel that I'm on an even keel or superior... When it is dark outside or when it's really, really bad weather. I don't rely on my vision anymore - my other senses take over, and I can do things [others] can't. That's probably the big bonus that I have. I thought the question would be coming "would I ever go back [from blindness]?" The answer is no. I value things so much differently now. It's the small things, the small accomplishments, that I would never have valued in my sighted life.
EM: What about wildlife on the trail? Were you concerned, did you come across anything out there?
Trevor: What didn't I come across? I had encounters with bears. Whether you're sighted or not, you need to be concerned about bears. I could usually hear them coming before people that I was with could see them. Same thing with rattlesnakes. The moose when I was in Maine - very, very dangerous animals. I could know where they were coming from even when nobody could see them. Anytime you're in the backcountry, no matter who you are, you need to be concerned about wildlife. Very, very pretty - nice creatures - but they're still wild animals. They can hurt you.
EM: It's been great to meet you over the phone! If you're ever out here in Salt Lake City, and want to go for a hike, I'd love to take you out and about.
Trevor: Sounds good. It actually wasn't that many weeks ago, I was there. I will be in Salt Lake City in August for my shoe sponsor, AHNU Outdoor Lifestyle Performance Footwear.
EM: Are you going to be updating your blog with the progress of your trip?
Trevor: I will be blogging for my sponsors. I will be updating my website with photos and video. There will be a page on there where you can follow my progress in real-time [from my SPOT unit], and it will give you Google Earth Maps. That's another piece of technology that's really, really cool.
EM: Would you mind copying us on your updates so we can post that to our blogs as well?
Trevor: Sure, I can have you added to the list.
EM: Did you come up the name "Zero/Zero" for yourself, or was that bestowed upon you on the trail?
Trevor: So you know about the trail names. Actually, that was one that was bestowed on me by my sister. She was the one that thought of the pun for Zero/Zero. I'm also a rock climber, and it's a climbing term. It means you're in a whiteout; you can't tell up from down, left from right. That's why she called me Zero/Zero. Here's an ironic story for you. There's also a thing when you're on the Appalachian Trail when you don't do any miles in a day, they call it "doing a zero." That means you're in town, doing laundry and things like that. People who instantaneously - either hadn't heard about me, you know, heard about "the blind guy on the trail" or didn't pick up that I was blind - they thought I was lazy. They thought I liked to take multiple days off in a row.
EM: I'm definitely going to follow your blog, and I wish you the best of luck on the Pacific Crest Trail.
Trevor: Thank you very much!
Note: This interview was recorded and uploaded using the Livescribe Pulse Smartpen
(Follow Trevor's progress online at http://www.teamfarsight.org/)
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